23.01.2007 BJJ Worlds' History, part 3 - Pé de Pano interviewBJJ enters the 21st century Pé de Pano: “I’m Jacaré’s fan. He has the heart of a champion” IN A BATTLE seen twice in 2005 (not in the Worlds – in the Pan and Yamasaki Tournament), Pé de Pano goes after Xande Ribeiro’s back in the semifinal of his first openweight title, in 2002.When comparing the two years in which you were champion, we notice a striking difference. Not in the fighting arena, where your superiority was the same, but in your attitude. While in 2002 you made mild statements, the following year you said that 30% of your Jiu-Jitsu was enough to take the championship. Why the difference?
I read in Roleta’s interview that he consider's Jiu-Jitsu to be an amateur sport demanding professional dedication. I agree entirely. As I dedicated myself a great deal to get to where I am, beating the best and still being criticized, I didn’t know how to deal with it. I got disillusioned and said something I shouldn’t have, because I was immature.
Before you, Amaury was two-time champion, Comprido too, and Zé Mario and Margarida each won once. When you got up there, how did you see yourself in the midst of this group?
It’s like I said, Amaury and Comprido did a great deal, and even still people criticize these guys’ Jiu-Jitsu, saying they weren’t all that. There are folks that do a lot less and are even more recognized. Margarida is in the media, Jacaré is in the media, and me too, so I can’t complain; but the problem is the lack of remembrance. Zé Mario fought a legendary final with Roleta, Margarida had a great year, and all that is unfairly forgotten. Comprido, for example, is the teacher at Brasa, leads a group of champions, and so should be more revered. But this is how the public is: if the guy wins today, he is the man, but then, he sucks. These days I receive three times the criticism I did complements back in the day.
Do you have any idea why?
Jiu-Jitsu has everything to be great, but the territoriality gets in the way, the public is the students. This is the reason for them routing against you. The guy might even like a certain athlete, but he will never route for him if he is not from his academy. This restricts the market, messing everything up. You only sell Gracie Barra t-shirts to those who train at Gracie Barra, Brasa ones to those who train at Brasa...
In 2001, due to injury, you ended up not facing Saulo in the semi-final, opening the way for him to fight Margarida. In 2002, the open-weight final between you two was luke warm. Could it have been some kind of retribution?
No, the fight was a serious one, but neither of us risked anything. My game is not like that, but I didn't want to lose. It was an unprecedented title for me, and I hadn't yet won it.
In 2003, what was notable was your fight with Roger in the final. Until then, all the athletes from the same academy wanted to do was get to the final to “work" the fight, and both would be considered champions. You were the first to buck this trend in a long time...
Looking back, it was noteworthy. But that wasn't the original ideal. We wanted to “work” it. He suffered pressure from his family, though. His name has always carried a lot of weight, and, what's more, he was well, in good shape, and I wasn't. He could have beaten me, so he chose to fight. But that didn't change our friendship, and we can see now that it was good for the sport, and this business of throwing fights is over. The only problem stemming from this episode is that it was a detriment to Café, who had beaten Marcelinho and opened the way for Roger. As we fought in the final, he didn't stand out, and his participation was overshadowed.
And shortly after winning this title, you saw Jacaré promoted at the awards podium and declared that they ended up creating a rivalry between the two of you. You said that is why you were going to keep on fighting, to not let another take your place. But you ended up not disputing the Worlds and the fight between you two never happened...
Yes, the following year I didn't fight because I was going to make my MMA debut [the event ended up being cancelled] a few days later, and I only came back at this year's Pan, but hurt myself at ADCC and couldn't fight in the Worlds. Well, I said all that stuff but didn’t know Jacaré well then. Now I see him as a sensational person, who beats all kinds of adversaries and adds a spark to the competitions he participates in. He has something worth more than technique, the heart of a champion. See, this year everybody talked about him not doing well, that Roger would run him over, and he didn’t fold. I am his fan.
Our focus is the Worlds, but this year you were the one that was submitted by Margarida in a small event, in the US. How do you feel about this defeat?
Look, I have no excuse, Margarida is a dangerous guy, and anybody can be tapped by him at anytime. But, on that day, I had a bear of a fight with Xande a few minutes before, and everybody knows that Xande is one of the toughest guys to beat in Jiu-Jitsu today. Beyond that, I competed in the Pan one week prior to that, in a marathon lasting over 12 hours. So I faced a series of difficulties, and he was better. It happened.
Comprido Said that he still has hopes of coming out on top at the Worls and become the first open-weight champion. What about you?
It’s hard to say. I have the will and the conditions, but I am focused on MMA. I always was the first to say that has nothing to do with anything, that one can compete in both, but now I will correct myself; I see the difference.
Now Fedor, who is the Pride number one, just became the world sambo champion. He fought in the Czech Republic and was all happy with the little medal he got in his sport. You don't think a Jiu-Jitsu fighter has a great responsibility to get in there and win?
That's what I say. It is harder to be a Jiu-Jitsu champion than to be an MMA champion, fighting against unknown adversaries, sometimes six in the same day. In spite of this, there is much less recognition. So, it is easier for one who hasn't yet gotten to that point, who still has that dream. I've been there, I know that nothing has changed, and so I have other priorities.
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